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The Coalition of Essential Schools 10 Common Principles and School 2.0
Table of Contents
The Coalition of Essential Schools 10 Common Principles and School 2.0
The Coalition of Essential Schools website.
10 Common Principles
Blog post comparing the CES Common Principles with similar texts.
Archive of ustream conversation
10:05 mimizhusband : Morning Dhammond
10:05 paulhami-1 : Can anyone hear this?
10:05 coolcatteacher : Ryan says tom has already started.
10:05 coolcatteacher : I told him it isn't working.
10:06 mimizhusband : Is it only on stream 2?
10:06 coolcatteacher : There are 9 stremas and this is where Tom is supposed to be.
10:07 mimizhusband : Ok. Coolcat, you are how I found out about this, so thanks for the work on your blog.
10:07 coolcatteacher : Kristin and Ryan says they are working on it.
10:08 coolcatteacher : However - Peruse tom's first link -
10:08 mmiller7571 : I am so in awe of this ustream ability to watch all of this that I can hardly stand it
10:09 mmiller7571 : will all of this be archived and able to watch later?
10:09 coolcatteacher : I say we all harass Ryan & Kristin until they make them fixit.
10:09 coolcatteacher : Yes, it saves it to watch it laer.
10:09 coolcatteacher : later
10:09 mimizhusband : ustream is going to completely change the game at a level beyond that of youtube
10:10 mmiller7571 : I want to figure out how to use this for my next presentation
10:10 mimizhusband : Where is everyone? I'm in Central CA. near Fresno. (Reedley)
10:10 coolcatteacher : OK, the wiki for this preso is here -
10:10 mmiller7571 : Willard, MO
10:10 coolcatteacher : Camilla, Georgia.
10:10 JackieB-1 : Illinois - Chicago 'burbs
10:10 arvind-2 : New York City
10:10 mimizhusband : I grew up in Wheaton and West Chicago
10:11 arvind-2 : watching Moodle session though
10:11 dhammond : Ontario Canada
10:11 mmiller7571 : do they have a video camera hooked up to a computer to show this?
10:11 mimizhusband : NYC! I feel honored.
10:11 dhammond : Is there audio on this stream?
10:11 jstearns : The wiki for the presentation is here:
10:12 mimizhusband : A free conference of international attendees. Amazing.
10:12 hshawjr-1 : @ mimizhusband: we have some fun...probably been doing this longer than you :)
10:12 coolcatteacher : I don't know that I agree with all of the principals there --
10:12 coolcatteacher : principles I mean.
10:12 JackieB-1 : I'm going to bop into channel 5.
10:12 jstearns : @mmiller7571 you can attach an external camera or use a webcam
10:12 coolcatteacher :
10:13 mimizhusband : hshaw - My wife teaches English, so we're sort of relatives.
10:13 coolcatteacher : They're working on it and I'm watching Ryan's chat so I'm staying but does everyone have the links to the others?
10:14 mimizhusband : The other streams?
10:14 hshawjr-1 : mimizhusband - honored! to think a CA person willing to talk to a backwoodsy Mainiac :)
10:14 coolcatteacher : There are 9 -- just change the number on the link above.
10:14 coolcatteacher : OH, HERE WE ARE!!!
10:15 mimizhusband : My favorite teacher of all time (Dr. Freeman, he's published) was from Maine.
10:15 mimizhusband : Nirvana!
10:15 coolcatteacher : Just in the nick of time. We're here for the break out sessions!
10:15 JackieB-1 : Yea!!!
10:15 cfisher : not picking up audio?
10:15 mimizhusband : no sound
10:15 coolcatteacher : I hear it.
10:15 cfisher : anyone else having troubles?
10:15 coolcatteacher : Just papers shuffling now.
10:16 coolcatteacher : It JUST went up -- there is an audio volume beside the number of viewers.
10:16 cfisher : there we go
10:16 jazzymiles : thanks Vicki
10:16 coolcatteacher : Tell Tom "We can hear you now!"
10:16 cfisher : I love just seeing inside other people's classrooms
10:16 mimizhusband : got it. My system volume was too low
10:16 coolcatteacher : Where is the smartboard?
10:17 mimizhusband : Who is this?
10:17 coolcatteacher : Tom Hoffman.
10:17 cfisher : Tom Hoffman
10:17 dogtrax-1 : Ustream is pretty amazing. The fact that we can "peek" into the conference -- very cool.
10:17 mimizhusband : Thanks.
10:17 coolcatteacher : The stuff we missed is here -
10:17 cfisher : look at the #s of viewers going up all the time
10:17 coolcatteacher : And here -
10:17 cfisher : I wonder how many people are actualy in the room
10:17 coolcatteacher : I'll ask.
10:17 jstearns : Is there audio?
10:17 mjclausen : yep
10:17 JackieB-1 : Yep.
10:18 mimizhusband : Are there more ustreamers than actual session attenders?
10:18 hshawjr-1 : an awful lot of reverb (all echo)
10:18 dogtrax-1 : There is audio but I guess they are doing some writing. We are here, watching them write. Strange.
10:18 coolcatteacher : Kristin is counting for me, I have an IM w/her.
10:18 coolcatteacher : He's not really presenting right now, they have break out groups for an assignment.
10:18 coolcatteacher : I'll try to find out what.
10:18 jstearns : Found that out here:
10:18 JackieB-1 : Thanks Vicki.
10:18 coolcatteacher : He is asking us to look at the list of ten and see what is problematic with the future design of schools. We have five minutes to do this.
10:19 coolcatteacher : Each of the 10 groups is taking one of these
10:19 dogtrax-1 : Oh -- thanks
10:19 hshawjr-1 : oops had channel 2 and 6 open at same time
10:20 kernkelley : cool thnx Vicki
10:20 mimizhusband : I love principal #8 on the list they are reviewing.
10:20 dogtrax-1 : Number 8 is important -- for teaching and for students, don't you think?
10:21 mimizhusband : For students, wow, you are right.
10:21 mimizhusband : #8!
10:22 mimizhusband : The sound of the audience is amazing. C-Span doesn't even do that very well.
10:22 mmiller7571 : yes bringing the outside in does help teachrs buy in
10:22 dogtrax-1 : It reminds me of a conversation at a Ning site lately about the various paths that people take into teaching and how enriching it can be to come into education from another field.
10:22 mmiller7571 : even if someone from inside your staff can say the exact same thing
10:22 coolcatteacher : I came into education from business.
10:22 coolcatteacher : I think that having another field is an incredible experience.
10:22 dogtrax-1 : Me? A former journalist and writer
10:23 jazzymiles : I came into edcuation after the Marine Corps, interesting perspective
10:23 mimizhusband : #2 principle goes against everything CA has done with standards.
10:24 mimizhusband : Yes, but everyone wants to know "What subject?"
10:24 coolcatteacher : Subjects give us a way to make sure things are covered.
10:24 dogtrax-1 : #3 -- good for considering special education students, who often get left out of these conversations, it seems.
10:24 derrallg : yes, #2 doesn't match the increasing size of the text book adotions
10:24 hshawjr-1 : I am one of those alternate path teacher - I am retired Coast Guard
10:25 hshawjr-1 : @dogtrax - Sometimes it does seem as special education is an afterthought???
10:25 mimizhusband : My brain is moving fast just to keep up with this whole experience
10:25 dogtrax-1 : Yes -- too often, and I am often guilty of this,too
10:25 coolcatteacher : OK, lets weigh our thoughts in.
10:26 coolcatteacher : #1 1. The school should focus on helping young people learn to use their minds well. Schools should not be comprehensive if such a claim is made at the expense of the school's central intellectual purpose.
10:26 coolcatteacher : Who defines a good "use of the mind."
10:26 coolcatteacher : That term makes me nervous.
10:26 dogtrax-1 : #7 -- unanxious expectation -- interesting phrase and at odds with the current trends, don't you think? Not a phrase to be uttered by Bush
10:26 derrallg : information literacy
10:27 hshawjr-1 : unfortunately them in power make up the definitions
10:27 coolcatteacher : @dogtrax - Sometimes we HAVE to have pressure and knowing how to deal w/ pressure is part of life.
10:27 hshawjr-1 : or should I say the purse strings
10:27 mimizhusband : Shoot. It looks like I need to buy a laptop just to fit in
10:28 mjclausen : I am most uncomfortable with 5; don't like the "student-as-worker" language
10:28 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband - A computer is just fine ;-)
10:28 barrypace : I wonder how many purse string holders are attending Educon? :)
10:28 JackieB-1 : @mimizhusband - Nah - go for the laptop!
10:28 coolcatteacher : I'm getting music through my spakers. WHERE IS IT COMING FROM.
10:29 coolcatteacher : It was from Ryan Bretag's live chat.
10:29 hshawjr-1 : @mimizhusband: - It give you a chance to spend all that moldy teacher's salary
10:29 mmiller7571 : l am getting music too:):):)
10:29 mimizhusband : #5 - I'm good with students learning to be self-teachers, but the beginning wording is draconian
10:29 coolcatteacher : Close Ryan Bretag's post.
10:29 coolcatteacher : He had music coming through it!!!
10:30 mjclausen : Yeah, real difference between worker and learner
10:30 dogtrax-1 : #6 -- "real tasks" -- that seems to coincide with the flat world analogy, don't you think? We connect for real world purposes.
10:30 coolcatteacher : OK, myquestion was "Who defines a good use of the mind" but he is going to maybe answer that later.
10:30 loonyhiker : and what I consider good use might not be what u do
10:30 coolcatteacher : They are voting on which on is in the most conflict -- they said #9 --
10:31 mimizhusband : #9 - 80 contacts? Most CA teachers have 35 to 40 students and 6 to seven classes per day. It just isn't going to happen
10:31 budtheteacher : WE need to make that reduction. Schools do waaayyyy too much outside of their core missions.
10:31 coolcatteacher : They are discussing #10 - The school should demonstrate non-discriminatory and inclusive policies, practices, and pedagogies. It should model democratic practices that involve all who are directly affected by the school. The school should honor diversity and build on the strength of its communities,
10:31 mmiller7571 : like what budthe teacher
10:31 mimizhusband : 120 student contacts wow, that is low.
10:32 mjclausen : @budtheteacher I agree, but are we really ready as a society to cut sports? theatre?
10:32 coolcatteacher : Sometimes life is not democratic.
10:32 JackieB-1 : Our contract caps us at 140 students.
10:32 loonyhiker : i agee that 9 is the biggie. here in SC it is max 150 which is the norm
10:32 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband - I have between 80-100 students each year -- when I get past a certain number in my room, I see myself becoming a poorer teacher.
10:32 mmiller7571 : I am elementary so wer don't have the sports we just have too many assemblies
10:32 coolcatteacher : I literally see it.
10:32 budtheteacher : (I'm not saying these aren't important): Homeless services, extra meals, medical support, extreme counseling resources,
10:32 coolcatteacher : right now I have 6 classes and 1 plannig period until the end of February -- and I'm not 'on top of my game" during that time.
10:32 budtheteacher : among others. I believe these are essential services. But are they essential SCHOOL services?
10:32 hshawjr-1 : #10 schools are not a democratic institution, they are autocracies either on the principals or school board ends
10:33 budtheteacher : @coolcatteacher: Schools should be as democratic as they can be.
10:33 budtheteacher : IT's pretty easy and important to model democratic processes when we can.
10:33 dougsymington : what institution can we name that is
10:33 loonyhiker : depends on the principal
10:33 jstewart : @coolcatteacher - I see 400 K-4 students for technology class, 45 minutes every 6 days
10:33 dougsymington : "democratic"
10:33 mmiller7571 : at the elementary level I would like to get more input from 3rd and 4th grade
10:33 mimizhusband : Bud is on to something. Why not view extra-curricular stuff as non-school.
10:33 mmiller7571 : we are only k-4
10:33 hshawjr-1 : Schools in many places are run top down and woe be the one that tries to rock the boat
10:34 coolcatteacher : @budtheteacher - We can model, however, if you ask a senior "do you want to do this" they'll say "I want to go home." It is in their psyche.
10:34 coolcatteacher : I do like giving them the choice of how to complete assignments.
10:34 mmiller7571 : LOL coolcat
10:34 coolcatteacher : I like integrating choice in the classroom, however the CHOICE of leaving or not learning should not be included.
10:34 loonyhiker : i like to give them choices whenever possible
10:34 mmiller7571 : kids LOVE choices
10:34 mjclausen : @coolcat they always have that choice...
10:34 hshawjr-1 : choice with limits imposed
10:35 budtheteacher : @coolcatteacher: That's not a democratic process. We don't decide whether or not to have a budget or elect a president. We decide between choices.
10:35 coolcatteacher : I think that these guidelines would be a nightmare if implemented literally. They are very fuzzy and squishy, I think.
10:35 budtheteacher : Also, democracy has a big role to play in the other stuff that we do at school - discipline, governance, policy, wtc.
10:35 dmcdowell : Agreed!
10:35 hshawjr-1 : they are attempts to meet the needs of the many, not the one
10:35 coolcatteacher : They are discussing this one - 9. Ultimate administrative and budget targets should include, in addition to total student loads per teacher of 80 or fewer pupils on the high school and middle school levels and 20 or fewer on the elementary level, substantial time for collective planning by teachers,
10:35 budtheteacher : They work when you recognize they're guidelines, not specific policy points.
10:36 mjclausen : collective planning is critical
10:36 loonyhiker : we used to be site based management until we got a new principal
10:36 coolcatteacher : competitive salaries for staff, and an ultimate per pupil cost not to exceed that at traditional schools by more than 10 percent. To accomplish this, administrative plans may have to show the phased reduction or elimination of some services now provided students in many traditional schools.
10:36 mmiller7571 : we actually have common planning time for my elementary teachers
10:36 dwarlick : It seems that the biggest goal is not whether the school is autocratic or democratic, but the degree to which the learning is "personal"
10:36 coolcatteacher : @budtheteacher - Yes, but educators are notorious for literally interpeting the guidelines.
10:36 mmiller7571 : AND Monday early out time
10:36 dmcdowell : We get an hour a week to collaborate - with department,, subject, and school - not much time to do everything
10:36 budtheteacher : And that's a piece of the conversation.
10:36 loonyhiker : lower class size = more taxes in my district
10:37 mjclausen : cross-curr collective planning at the high school level is vital to getting outside the compartmentalized mind set
10:37 coolcatteacher : @dwarlick and yes, learning should be personal, while still ensure that students know how to do some core things well -- can they read and write? My son is awful at grammar and wouldn't study it if given the choice.
10:37 mimizhusband : They ustream their classes? That is currently against school policy
10:37 hshawjr-1 : I agree that we need to concentrate on the personal aspect of teaching the student sometimes we get too hung up on "policy"
10:37 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband - Who ustreams their classes?
10:37 mimizhusband : The guy talking
10:37 budtheteacher : @coolcatteacher: SLA.
10:37 budtheteacher : Chris
10:37 budtheteacher : THey ustream out.
10:38 loonyhiker : it seems like schools have moved away from what is in the best interest of the students
10:38 mmiller7571 : a lot of teachers use the term "policy" as a catch all and don't know the difference between policy and guidelines
10:38 dwarlick : @cct, certainly. I'm not talking about what they're learning, but how they're learning it. Are they learning reading as a personal skills/tool, or as an academic skill for the sake of a gold star...
10:38 coolcatteacher : @budtheteacher - They ustream ALL of their classes?
10:38 barrypace : Does one-to-one laptop offer the best chance for learning to be personal?
10:38 budtheteacher : @coolcatteacher: I don't know the details - just know they do ustream some of them.
10:38 coolcatteacher : @dwarlick - YES! Now that I agree with.
10:38 mimizhusband : Yes. That wouldn't be allowed. Well, we don't have a video camera so....
10:38 coolcatteacher : I ustream my student presentations at conferences.
10:38 mmiller7571 : great idea cct
10:39 hshawjr-1 : I believe that technology is no more than a tool the teach is able to use effectively otherwise, it is just another gizmo
10:39 dwarlick : Dang! I have another conference to go to. I don't want to leave ;-)
10:39 mimizhusband : Give me one killer argument to convince admin on streaming aspects of my class
10:39 coolcatteacher : But as a rule, I don't live stream my classroom just to protect the students and let them make mistakes. (and me too.)
10:39 coolcatteacher : @dwarlick - It will be a great conference b/c you're there!
10:40 budtheteacher : @mimizhusband: You need to have a reason to do it. Distance learning? Absent students? Doing it to do it - not such a good argument.
10:40 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband - I don't like livestreaming unless there is a purpose. I do it for students to "present to the world" something they have done but the problem is you can tell them not to use full names or say private info but they DO.
10:40 coolcatteacher : So for that reason, I really don't use it in my classroom.
10:40 hshawjr-1 : well gotta go, wife bugging me to do my chores - talk about lack of democracy
10:40 coolcatteacher : Mogulus has potential however.
10:40 coolcatteacher : @hshawjr - As I said, no democracy.
10:41 coolcatteacher : Any place where you can EDIT the video ahead of time. I also like the ning video feature, I can set it to require me to preapprove it.
10:41 hshawjr-1 : :p) bye
10:41 budtheteacher : The emphasis of the CES is that teachers and students and administrators are people with the power to make decisions. As Vicki pointed out earlier, lots of schools are setup to prevent any independent exercise of judgment.
10:41 JackieB-1 : Arg - life is interfering with me devoting my full attention to this session.
10:41 mimizhusband : Good points on streaming. I have actually thought that a way to safely experiment and get the school used to it is to "cast school sporting events.
10:42 coolcatteacher : The folks at the conference cannot IRC chat w/ us b/c it is BLOCKED! They told him it would be unblocked but they didn't do it. So, that is why we're all people who aren't there.
10:42 coolcatteacher : So, pass the word to copy the chat of any sessio you're in.
10:42 budtheteacher : @jackieb - me, too - Maybe we should schedule a time to watch it and chat our way through?
10:43 mimizhusband : I love it! I am not the only one facing blocking issues.
10:43 JackieB-1 : @bud - I like that idea, I'm just not sure when it would be.
10:43 mimizhusband : bud - not a bad idea.
10:44 budtheteacher : Hmm . .. .something to come back to -
10:44 budtheteacher : Don't let me forget, Jackie.
10:44 JackieB-1 : @bud - Don't worry, I won't :)
10:44 coolcatteacher : I twittered this, please twitter it too - "If you're watching the sessions at Educon in ustream, please copy the chat and paste on the wiki it is blocked at SLA"
10:45 JackieB-1 : Whoa - none of this is being archived? What did I miss?
10:45 JackieB-1 : Okay - sorry. I guess I should read before I ask.
10:46 budtheteacher : That's Gary Stager talking.
10:47 coolcatteacher : The one thing that bothers me is that if we are talking PERSONALIZED learning the lower ratio shows that the teacher is still important. I think it is important to stress that.
10:47 budtheteacher : Was that ever not stressed?
10:47 coolcatteacher : @JackieB - I archived this and am pasting it here -
10:48 JackieB-1 : Thanks Vicki!
10:48 coolcatteacher : @budtheteacher - That is Chris right there -- was it Gary before him.
10:48 coolcatteacher : Tom Hoffman is the presenter.
10:48 budtheteacher : Yes - was gary speaking off screen
10:48 coolcatteacher : OH.
10:48 jstearns : Unmistakeable accent
10:49 coolcatteacher : Who is talking now?
10:49 mimizhusband : A parent.
10:49 JackieB-1 : I so agree with Chris. There are so many kids I worry about - do they slink thru their day without ever talking to anyone else?
10:49 mjclausen : lol
10:49 briangrenier : in regard to Chris' comment....school design is an essential part of that as well...how does a student feel "home" in schools designed like Motel 6's
10:49 coolcatteacher : @JackieB - The great thing at our small school is that everyone can do whatever activities they WANT to do. Any sport, any activity -- something that you can't do in a super large school.
10:49 mimizhusband : The only schools that succeed on the tests teach directly to them.
10:49 budtheteacher : @briangrenier: It's the people.
10:50 mimizhusband : How many students, Ccat?
10:50 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband - We don't teach the test at all and yet most of our classes are all in the 90th percentile. Middle class town and people.
10:50 dhammond : What is education and what is learning should be the same question. Sadly they're very different.
10:50 JackieB-1 : I work in a hs with about 2,000 students.
10:50 derrallg : is that liz davis?
10:50 coolcatteacher : We have 360 students K-12
10:50 JackieB-1 : Soo many that I dont' know.
10:50 coolcatteacher : so about 80 or so in the high school.
10:50 coolcatteacher : I know almost all of the 360 -- and follow kids from kindergarten on up.
10:51 JackieB-1 : I think that's Liz (the hat gives it away).
10:51 mimizhusband : Our HS is 1700.
10:51 budtheteacher : @dhammand: They're NOT the same.
10:51 budtheteacher : Different agents.
10:51 mjclausen : I worked in a small alternative school with 120 students; I knew everyone's name...so powerful
10:51 coolcatteacher : @mjclausen - In a world of anonymity, students want meaning.
10:51 coolcatteacher : @mjclausen - They want to feel important.
10:51 dhammond : @budtheteacher Should they have the same result?
10:51 budtheteacher : I was in a small alt. school, too. 80-120 - I knew everyone - and could at the very least say hello to every kid. By name. Makes a huge difference - and it's not that hard.
10:52 mjclausen : and small schools make it easy to give them that feeling
10:52 budtheteacher : @dhammand: I don't think so.
10:52 JackieB-1 : @bud - and now?
10:52 derrallg : In my district parents want high test scores = maintaining high real estate value in Cupetino
10:52 mimizhusband : The parent's comment earlier was basically "why are ANY schools as big and as impersonal as they are now?"
10:52 budtheteacher : @jackie: I work for the school district now.
10:52 coolcatteacher : @mjclausen - But there has to be a way to make "mini schools" within big schools without ripping out existing infrastructure.
10:52 budtheteacher : PRofessional development for the tech department.
10:53 JackieB-1 : @bud - thanks.
10:53 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband - B/c they said it would save us a lot of money to consolidate. It didn't.
10:53 mjclausen : @coolcat I agree, and grants like Smaller Learning Communities are a great way to try it out
10:53 coolcatteacher : Do public schools give parents the test scores for their individual students.
10:53 coolcatteacher : Who is talking?
10:53 jazzymiles : Gary Stager is talking with Chris
10:54 JackieB-1 : @coolcatteacher - We do. Every year. Now it seems to be all that many parents care about. "How will this help on the ACT?"
10:54 briangrenier : good point
10:54 mimizhusband : Test scores are chicken and the egg. Well educated parents move to Cupertino so the test scores go up,not theother way around. I think that what Educon is suggesting that it is possible to rethink the school that ISN'T working well for students
10:54 budtheteacher : This really is my dream conversation. How do we link principles of humanity and good schooling with technology?
10:55 coolcatteacher : But we measure sucess by test scores -- not by how the students feel about it.
10:55 coolcatteacher : So, that is the issue.
10:55 budtheteacher : (And I very much love that some of my favorite skeptics are the ones advocating for the CES model.
10:55 derrallg : @mimizhusband but i don't think teaching to the test is a successful school
10:55 JackieB-1 : @coolcatteacher - Test scores only show how wella student can take the test.
10:55 coolcatteacher : @budtheteacher - It is a great conversation. I fear implementation by some people who don't really understand kids and the realities of the classroom.
10:56 JackieB-1 : I have students who do not /understand/ the math, but can still test well.
10:56 coolcatteacher : It could be implemented well or implemented poorly.
10:56 mjclausen : *raises hand* @JackieB I was one of those in HS
10:56 coolcatteacher : I like what Chris is saying this is very important.
10:56 budtheteacher : @cct: Say more 'bout that.
10:57 coolcatteacher : @budtheteacher - About implementing poorly?
10:57 mimizhusband : I don't know. We are a failing school that doesn't teach to the test. The schools that are marginally better around here do openly teach to the test. Transfer students from other Districts come to us with surprise that we DON'T teach to the state tests.
10:57 mjclausen : ME TOO!!
10:57 budtheteacher : @cct: Yes - what do you mean?
10:58 mjclausen : This is a great point
10:58 coolcatteacher : I don't like student as worker either.
10:58 mimizhusband : I like what he's saying too
10:58 derrallg : I don't like the word student iteself prefer learner
10:59 budtheteacher : I've got to run - hope to continue the conversation later.
10:59 mimizhusband : Maybe our idea of "worker" is out of date
10:59 mmiller7571 : are w e in real time on ustream
10:59 mjclausen : bye bud
10:59 JackieB-1 : Bye Bud!
10:59 mimizhusband : realtime
10:59 coolcatteacher : I like pro-learner -- producer learner -- they are producing and learning.
10:59 dougsymington : cya bud
10:59 derrallg : bye bud
10:59 briangrenier : Student as participant
10:59 JackieB-1 : Hey - @kevinwalter has a possible solution: Open port 6667, TCP/UDP in/out.
10:59 dougsymington : @derrall agree re learner
10:59 coolcatteacher : I get frustrated b/c I feel like we get past what is important.
11:00 briangrenier : Teacher as participant
11:00 briangrenier : Admin as participant
11:00 mimizhusband : "past what is important"?
11:00 coolcatteacher : @JackieB- I sent this one out.
11:00 mimizhusband : How about "Admin as eliminated!"
11:00 coolcatteacher : Sometimes educators spend a lot of time debating semantics and not focusing on practical -- what we should be doing kind of things.
11:01 mimizhusband : fair enough
11:01 coolcatteacher : I feel that there is real bureaucracy that has no clue what happens in the classroom.
11:01 derrallg : @vicki but the words come with baggage
11:01 coolcatteacher : @derrallg - Yes, words do come w/ baggage. But if things work, the world will let us use whatever terms we want. The problem is that kids are slipping through the cracks.
11:02 coolcatteacher : Good kids who need an education and someone to "love" them and show them that they have a gift that they need to use to better the world.
11:02 thekyleguy : that bureaucracy definity resists the idea of shifting learning coolcat
11:02 mimizhusband : Stepping back, if this is a classroom, look how little the teacher is talking. At this high level of student knowledge, the teacher can't be the main voice.
11:02 mjclausen : Need administration to handle the behind the scenes tasks to keep school functioning, but how do we strengthen their understandings of day-to-day classsroom
11:02 briangrenier : @coolcatteacher ...and many time the classroom has no clue what's happening in "the office"...another reason to bridge that disconnect
11:02 coolcatteacher : And we want to debate terms. We need to figure out how to create networks that empower and link kids who are "loners" with others.
11:02 mimizhusband : At lower levels, the teacher must present more input
11:02 coolcatteacher : Like we have done for the teachers who are loners.
11:03 coolcatteacher : I'm a loner for goodness sakes, not by choice but b/c I just don't fit in.
11:03 JackieB-1 : @mimizhusband - What do you mean by "lower levels" ?
11:03 mimizhusband : High school and below
11:03 coolcatteacher : @briangrenier -- Our curriculum director and Principal both started as teachers -- that is why I think we do so well.
11:04 dougsymington : does the notion of student=worker stem from "knowledge worker" concept?
11:04 tbest : testing chat
11:04 dougsymington : notwithstanding it appropriateness/relevance
11:04 mjclausen : @doug I'm worried it comes more from school as preparing kids for workforce concept
11:04 mimizhusband : Our principal taught elementary a long time ago for three years. NONE of our counselors has ever been in the classroom, except to substitute
11:04 briangrenier : but most admin start as teachers...so there has got to be something else going on
11:04 mimizhusband : Not here
11:05 mjclausen : time is a factor; too much time out of the classroom leads to a disconnect
11:06 coolcatteacher : Ah, the counseling area, another area I have strong opinions.
11:06 mimizhusband : MMiller - true, but not a part of the CA. system anymore. Teachers don't have time to even attend classes. I teach online and most of my students are east of the Mississippi
11:06 coolcatteacher : But we have all those peole in the room and no ability to backchannel their chats -- that is a real missing point.
11:07 mmiller7571 : I have teachers blogging and one podcasting but doing it when they are supposed to be teaching reading
11:07 mimizhusband : You, opinions? It can't be. ;-)
11:07 coolcatteacher : they are really going to miss out on what could have been if they could all contribute simultaneously b/c in this room only the most vociferous are being heard.
11:07 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband -- I know I know -- I don't have any opinions. Right! ;-)
11:07 mimizhusband : BOOOOOO
11:07 briangrenier : @mmiller...Isn't that the key to successful tech integration?
11:07 mmiller7571 : I want them to jump in but they need to incorporate it not do it separately
11:07 mimizhusband : Booo to the feed going down
11:07 coolcatteacher : @mmiller7571 - Reading still needs to be taught.
11:08 mjclausen : :(
11:08 mmiller7571 : a science podcast during reading teaching is not tech integration
11:08 loonyhiker : @mmiller i wish i could get teachers to do any of that
11:08 mjclausen : are they reading science?
11:08 coolcatteacher : Why can't they READ blogs?
11:08 mimizhusband : Mmiller. correct
11:08 coolcatteacher : Why can't they learn how to speak w/ a topic sentence using voicethread.
11:08 mmiller7571 : So how do I promote podcasts and blogging with such little time
11:08 coolcatteacher : YEs, teachers can get to know their kids at all times.
11:09 derrallg : @Mmiller Voicethread as vicki suggests is great for beginners
11:09 coolcatteacher : I hug my students. I tell my "class" that I love them -- I praise them. I am related to them.
11:09 mimizhusband : What I am hearing is that contracts need to be rewritten to allow for specific time for teachers to read email, read subject-matter articles and blog
11:09 coolcatteacher : @mmiller7571 - It is not about the technology but what you want to do.
11:09 mmiller7571 : do we focus on state test subjects and start implementing podcast and bloggin in the the Non-tested subjects first to work their way to tested subjects
11:09 mjclausen : @mmiller from a tools approach. How will those tools enhance the learning?
11:09 coolcatteacher : You look at the reading programand say "what do I need to do" and find the tool to help you do that.
11:09 mimizhusband : Any way to know why the feed is glichy?
11:10 coolcatteacher : For example, use yesicanscience and have them blog w/ the science.
11:10 mmiller7571 : Right, how witll those tools ENHANCE what they are already doing I think right now they are replacing it
11:10 dougsymington : and SO MUCH still comes back to the individual teacher and his/her skill and motivation
11:10 jorrflv : We hve advisoy and the way it is structured at our school I feel more connected to the kids in my actual class then in the advisory
11:10 coolcatteacher : @mmiller -- We should start with what we want to DO and then figure out the way to do it.
11:10 coolcatteacher : The problem is that the first time a teacher does it ther eis a learning curve, but then they become more proficient.
11:11 coolcatteacher : A reason to have teachers mentor one another on how to do such things.
11:11 mmiller7571 : this teacher is HUGELY motivated and my best teacher but is spending more time on science podcasts than on implementing guided reading
11:11 mjclausen : @mmiller how can you support the teacher to use the tools to implement guided reading?
11:11 derrallg : @doug i agree, PD as ongoing is forgotten for some teachers to maintain motivation
11:11 mmiller7571 : podcasting is easier and more interesting than organizing and planning guided reading I completely understand
11:11 coolcatteacher : @mmiller7571 - Hmmm. Can they create blog posts for the podcasts? Can they wiki? Could she use gcast instead of a edited model.
11:12 mmiller7571 : I agree that it will all evlove it is just so hard to watch as and admin how do I guide without putting the fire out
11:12 coolcatteacher : We need division of fractions!!!!
11:12 coolcatteacher : What?
11:12 mimizhusband : I guess my answer for the science blogger would be to have a school structured so that the students that would most benefit from such a learning environment would be in his class and others would be with their best teacher
11:12 jazzymiles : David Jakes is speaking now
11:12 coolcatteacher : @mmiller7571 - Encourage them to use additional tools to do different things.l
11:12 jorrflv : @ coolcattteacher would agree
11:12 coolcatteacher : Have the students READ ALOUD on the podcast.
11:13 mimizhusband : Do we REALLY need fraction division?
11:13 coolcatteacher : So she's doing podcasting but also reading That would be motivation.
11:13 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband -- It is a building block for further things.
11:13 coolcatteacher : Algebra for instance.
11:13 coolcatteacher : And we need to get them thinking logically -- now how long should we spend on it, that is another matter.
11:13 mimizhusband : What further things?
11:13 mmiller7571 : right I want to promote tech tools but not at the expense of guided reading, I am not sure that makes sense
11:14 briangrenier-1 : force fed it...then swallowed it
11:14 mimizhusband : Math teachers are famously not innovators
11:14 coolcatteacher : Well, if they need to be able to use the fractions in algebra then they need to move ahead so that they can do calculus.
11:14 mjclausen : @mmiller I'm not sure why it is an either or
11:14 jorrflv : it is the mechanism that is important bcause you cant put x into a calc
11:14 JackieB-1 : @coolcatteacher - There are ways to foster algebraic thingking that don't involve drill and kill
11:14 coolcatteacher : @JackieB - I'm not advocating drill and kill but I'm saying that people determine relevance by their own need of the skills and that is dangerous.
11:14 jorrflv : You learn the mechanism at early age
11:15 coolcatteacher : Just because Gary or you don't use division of fractions doesn't mean it is not important.
11:15 coolcatteacher : We need to look at HOW to do things better, yes.
11:15 mmiller7571 : it doesn't have to be an either or but how do I communicate that without squashing the teachers thunder
11:15 mimizhusband : I guess I am questioning those levels of math at all. If Principle #8 is about being a generalist, what place does Algebra 2 have in EVERY students' course list
11:15 coolcatteacher : @mmiller -- Yes, you're right. It is a balancing act.
11:16 coolcatteacher : I agree w/ Chris -- we need to say what am I measuring. We also need to have people REFLECT on what they are doing
11:16 coolcatteacher : @mmiller and perhaps that will be something that could help you -- if you have the teacher reflect, you might see that she/he sees it too.
11:16 JackieB-1 : There ARE other ways of assessing understanding in mathematics.
11:16 coolcatteacher : @mmiller and that opens up the conversation for how to move in that direction.
11:16 derrallg : I agree with vicki that these basic math skills must be taught because they are a foundation every student needs
11:16 mimizhusband : You would be despressed beyond belief at how little some teachers "reflect"on what they teach
11:17 batman44-1 : I agree with Gary... do we need to drill these to teh extent that we do ? Should we be teaching and reinforcing other dynamics...
11:17 mimizhusband : Algebra is a
11:17 coolcatteacher : It bothers me that several people are dominating the conversation.
11:17 mimizhusband : Algebra is a Basic skill?
11:17 derrallg : need a facilitator
11:17 mimizhusband : I don't know Algebra anymore
11:17 mmiller7571 : My teachers see me promote technology so they are getting excited but I am the impatient one I guess
11:18 coolcatteacher : Some peole are not showing in the chat for some reason. I'm not sure why.
11:18 mimizhusband : true. I'll convert to lurker
11:18 mmiller7571 : I don't them to use my excitement as a scapegoat to teching whta they are suppposed to
11:18 coolcatteacher : @mimizhusband - Algebra is a key determining factor of success in college. The logic required is important for advanced learning.
11:18 jazzymiles : yes, still find creative ways to engage kids while we are forced to teach within a box to reach State Standards.
11:18 mimizhusband : Only 10% of our kids graduate from college
11:19 mmiller7571 : I'll let you know how it evolves because it is a good thing to reflect on
11:19 coolcatteacher : I'm pasting the chat I see here -
11:19 jazzymiles : smuggle in Web2.0 into the classroom
11:19 mimizhusband : nice!
11:20 jazzymiles : I never thought of myself as a rebel until I discovered the Read/Write web blocked in our school
11:20 mjclausen : @jazzy lol, me too
11:20 batman44-1 : read/write web is blocked in too many schools
11:21 jorrflv : who was talking there
11:22 mjclausen : I need to go *sigh* This has been great; thanks for the convo everyone
11:22 loonyhiker : i had windows 3.1 up until a couple of years ago. admin wasn't eager for us to be tech saavy
11:23 loonyhiker : could only use it for word processin
11:24 mimizhusband : Wow loony.
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